A lot of people ask me what I think about what is going on in Israel right now and how I feel about their actions. I guess they want to know the viewpoint of a soldier who is fighting in a similar war in the same region. I don’t think my opinion on the matter holds much more weight than anyone else’s but I do have strong feelings about what is going on. The short and skinny about my beliefs is that I think Israel is a peace loving nation that is doing what it has to do to protect itself from a people who want to see it, along with all it’s people, destroyed. Jewish people have been mistreated for one reason or another wherever they have lived throughout history and now that they have their own country it is no different. They afford non-Jewish people the same rights they enjoy while no Arabs are willing to do the same for them. I believe some of the hatred for the Jews to stem from jealously on the parts of other nations who could only wish to be as successful as the Jews are. They have turned a desert wasteland into a booming country while the lands around it still languish years behind. Of course I could go on and on but this post is not about how I feel about Israel, instead it is about the conversation I had today with the Iraqis I work with about Israel.
The conversation started when one Iraqi army soldier told me that: “Israel is trash.” As I choked on some water I asked him to repeat himself. He said again “Israel is trash, they kill babies and women.” I tried to prod him and ask him exactly what he meant but due to the language barrier some random words like Lebanon, kill, bomb, and civilians had to suffice for his explanation.
Later on in the day when our interpreter came back I asked him what he thought about Israel right now. I respect his opinion much more because he is a college educated man and has spent three years with Americans so he knows how we operate. I was disappointed though when he echoed the same thoughts as the soldier.
He began by asking me what I thought of Israel so I told him about the history of the Jewish people and also about what they are up against now. I covered the highlights from Abraham to the Holocaust and touched on their wars from 1948 on. I must have talked for five straight minutes before he said “But do you really believe all that?” I should have figured something like that would come out of his mouth but it caught me by surprise. How do you convince someone of your point when they think everything that comes out of your mouth is a lie? I responded by explaining to him that I am always up for a good argument and that I hope he doesn’t feel different about me because of my beliefs about Israel and that we would still be friends after our talk was done.
With that understood I started tackling sensitive subjects such as Iraq’s expulsion of Jews and Arabs hatred for all Jews and those who support them. I explained to him that Hamas does not want “Palestinian” land back but rather, they want the extermination of all the Jews and won’t be happy with anything less. I told him about Arafat’s denial of the peace plan offered to him by Clinton and the ensuing terrorist activity that took place instead. His response to all of this was typical of the Arabs I have come in contact with: “But they kill babies and civilians and stole the land from the Palestinians.” He gave no thought to the millions of Jews slaughtered over the years and couldn’t see past the inevitable deaths of civilians that come along with any war. I told him that if terrorists would quit hiding behind civilians than they wouldn’t die. I don’t think he understood.
Our conversation came to a close when the next shift came to relieve me from my post. I know neither one of us was satisfied and were probably equally dissatisfied with each other. As I walked away I wanted to excuse him for his ignorance because of the piss poor education in Iraq. I wanted to blame Al Jazeera for the propaganda they show each day on TV. I wanted to blame everyone but the soldiers but at last I realized that the real fault lies with them. Until they learn to seek the truth instead of blindly hating Jewish people they will never understand why I could possibly support “baby killers” and “trash.”
What discouraged me most were the comments that the interpreter had about America’s support for Israel. He explained to me why Arabs hate America and why terrorists love to fight against us. To put it simply it is because of our support for Israel. If we can support trash we must be trash ourselves. If we can support those who “oppress” Arabs then we must want to oppress them too. If the majority of Arabs think as he does, which I believe they do, then I fear for our future influence in the Arab world. Of course we will have “allies in Iraq” but the general populous will probably never get behind us until the Jews are wiped from the face of the earth. It is as he said to end the conversation: “This is a problem that will never be solved.” He is right inasmuch as Golda Meir said “There will never be peace in the Middle East until Arabs love their children more than they hate Jews.”
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43 comments:
My mind reels at how something like this is so easy to start and yet so difficult to root out once the infestation has set in.
We all have our prejudices, but has any ever been so self-destructive as Arab Anti-Semitism?
Thank you Tim for this blog especially much. You ask the questions that nobody else that I know is willing to ask because they don't want to hear the answer or face up to the truth. You are a brave man but please watch your back. The answrs you got are heartbreaking in many ways. They are the answers we have gotten ourselves in similar conversations with foreign students here studying in the USA. In my opinion this is one of your finest works in that it gets down to the bottom line and what we are really facing in this war. We can't thank you enough but please be careful.
Your faithful reader
Annie
I'm with Annie, watch your six! I hate that this Anti-Semitism so prevails, even in supposedly enlightened countries. It's like a blind spot that Arabs and others just can't seem to see around. Awfully scary! ...and Golda had it exactly right.
It sounds as if Iraq needs a blogger such as yourself, but an Iraqi soldier of course, to expose the lies in their MSM. Sometimes though, there is no changing the way people see things. Being raised to hate an entire people has to be the most destructive and difficult concept to changes ones mind on. My head started to spin while reading your post. What could you possibly say to someone who will not listen to you?
For those of you who saw this post earlier I just changed the title. I woke up this morning and no joke the first thing I thought was "Arabs and Jewish Hatred, that sounds like it is the Jews that are hating." So I changed it. That is all, I just wanted to inform people of why I changed it.
What I can't believe is the number of Americans I talk to who have no clue about the history of the peace accord attempts, and the number of times that the Palestinians have rejected perfectly reasonable accords which give them the land and validation they want. They reject the accords because they don't include provisions for annihilating Israel.
I see sympathy for Lebanon rising in America because of the civilian deaths, and I shudder again at the number of uninformed Americans who simply don't get it.
And what I really don't understand is the American Jewish population - particularly in states like New York - who vote overwhelmingly for a political party that has shown a history of waffling in international conflict, cutting and running, and will do so in the Middle East if they can achieve a majority in our next national election.
Now you, Tim, point out another major problem - the belief in the Middle East that we are lying about the historic events that have happened to the Jews. And I have always found it mindboggling that Israel has achieved economic, educational and good health conditions for its population while Palestine flounders in self pity and self destruction. Golda spoke the truth; the world just won't listen.
It is all mind-boggling! How could someone who lives in Iraq where Arabs kill women and children every day with their terrorist bombs not make the connection to how Israel feels about terrorist and threats to their country? I guess it is just generations of hate and mis-information. It gives me that "hopeless" feeling. But then, I think that what you and other soldiers are doing is the only way to make things better - to teach and show Arab people that the USA will support and help those who seek peace (and fight those who do not).
I don't think we should support either side. The politicos are dragging their civilians into this mess; both side's children are dying, brutally, on a daily basis, and both sides are protesting in the streets for a ceasefire... and there we are, the U.S., making half-hearted attempts to reconcile the matter. The reality of the situation? We want into Syria (with higher aspirations of Iran) and Israel is our best excuse.
Be prepared, ya'll. I really hope you aren't there Tim, but this is the unfortunate path we are on.
Hello Sgt. Boggs and thank you for answering a very important question for us. I hope it hasn't put you in even more danger because you brought the subject up over there! It makes me feel a little better just to see that your readers have thought about these things for themselves and that not everybody in the world is blind or neglectfull of the truth. When things look hopeless "Look up" and keep on doing the things that we know are right to do. Love good - -hate evil and keep on telling the truth. You are very good at doing that and we appreciate you more and more each day. Thanks from the bottom of our hearts! Thanks too for changing the Title to this blog. We figured you were just hot and tired when you wrote that first one. Ha!
Your fan and supporter,
Neatie
Excellent post -- and so sad. :-(
Thanx for all you do.
sammyd,
It is not so unbelievable that the average American does not know Israel's storied history of attempting to be a peaceful nation because most "educated" Americans metriculated from liberal universities with anti-Israel professors. I know this from personal experience as I have a BA in History. I recall, more than once, having it out with a pinko professor or two.
Boggs, don't get too down on what the future holds for Arab mindsets about the Jews. There was a time when, in our very own country, similar opinions prevailed about African Americans. There will always be prejudices, but with time, minds can be changed.
Thank you, Sgt, for your service. If it weren't for brave men and women like yourself, anti-Israel A-holes, like the ones that gave me 'C's all through college, wouldn't enjoy the freedom to make asses of themselves on a daily basis.
A new fan,
Em Green
My son had a good friend at West Point who was an exchange student from Jordan. My son quickly learned not to bring up the subject of Isreal or the room temperature would immediately go cold. I was surprised because Jordan's government is clearly the most pro-American in the Arab world. But it taught me the lesson that generations of propoganda and hatred can skew the views of otherwise well educated, pro-Western people. On the other hand, check out the sites of some left wing bloggers and you will find the hatred there of Israel(and America) is equally strong.
I just left a comment but didn't mean to end in a negative light. Hopefully what you had to say to your Iraqi contacts will at least force them to think about what you said. It will take a long time to change a way of thinking that has gone on for generations, but with so much information available on the internet and elsewhere, if some in that part of the world want to hear an alternative voice, it is there to hear now. Keep up the good work and God bless you.
Great post guy,
It is disheartening to see this attitude, but like your new fan Em said it will take time but it can be changed.
I would really be interested as to where your friend Gen. Ali comes down on this issue. His influence - if he is not rooted in hatred- could be a big key to helping change thinking.
Todd
Sgt. Boggs, I'm sorry, but I have to say something about the lies you keep repeating and repeating. All you are doing is repeating what you read in a book by Alan Dershowitz. Please read Norman Finkelstein's "Beyond Chutzpah: On the Misuse of Anti-semitism and the Abuse of History" for a detailed expose of Dershowitz's lies.
There are many, many reputable histories of the Middle East. I think I gave you a list earlier. Have you read even one of them?
Please re-read your blog post and try to see the gross generalizations and racist innuendos that you wrote.
There are many history books. However, the truth is always truth and can actually be learned from personal accounts and seeing history for yourself. One thing is absolute. People who have eyes to see and ears to hear always know a propagandist and enemy when they see one and you are one Elizabeth.
My name is Annie so don't give anyone else credit for this comment. Our country is going down because of people like you. Your are worse than terrorists because they can be killed. You hide behind the civilization you are destroying. You call evil good and good evil.
Again - this is Annie and nobody else.
I, too, have sadly concluded (hopefully wrongly) that there is no changing of the Arab mind with regard to Israel.
Not the men any way. Not any time soon any way. Yikes! Do you think Elizabeth is going to accuse me of "gross generalizations" here?
But I believe the women want a better life for themselves and their children.
Victor Davis Hanson wrote an article today outlining the history of the Middle East - "bankrupt ideologies that traditionally blame others for prior self-induced failures: fascism, communism, Baathism, Pan-Arabism, and, most recently, Islamic fundamentalism" - resulting in high unemployment, corruption, no growth, illiteracy, no freedom, dictators, jihadists - and who do they fault - Britain, France, Italy, certainly the United States. AND - tucked in amongst them is this small little country Israel which has managed to "fashion a prosperous Middle Eastern society without oil revenues under democratic auspices."
Who is in their back yard?
Who is easiest to take their victimization grievances out on?
Boggs the very first post I read of yours was written 3/8/06 - "The Future Of Iraq"
Your position was the country will change - with the children.
It is worth reading your own words again.
And so I say to you. Keep doing your best. Post as often as you can.....it is important to us at home to see thru the eyes of the men and women we trust. And spread the word - don't forget the children.
Once again - THANK YOU for your service. Andrea in California
Thank you Andrea. As a woman I find it impossible to understand why any woman could support Islamic Fundamentalism. Just compare the condition of women in Israel to those in the rest of the Middle East. Where would you rather be a woman? Perhaps some people think women actually enjoy being possessions ranked with goats. You have a good point, Andrea. I guess it would be dificult to protest this demeaning possition under threat of horrid punishment for thinking for yourself and acting on your own. I think you are also correct about the children. They probably are the only hope of real change. Thanks for your well written and well thought out comment. But then - -you are an American woman.
Gratefully,
Another free woman Annie
Well, as long as lies are being exposed, why not start with Juan Cole's?
Thanks William.
"People who have eyes to see and ears to hear always know a propagandist and enemy when they see one..."
Ah. So I take it you now see the propaganda when it is staring you blatantly in the face, Ms. Annie?
Can you pick out all the propaganda techniques employed by the U.S. for the Iraq war?
Yes, when government puts out propaganda it is recognizable as well. Also the truth they tell is obvious. I am not ignorant of propaganda wherever it is handed out. I am very aware of the propaganda handed out about our government handing out propaganda as well. You are living in the past propagandist. Thinking American citizens are passing you by. Perhaps your methods need updating. Preach to those who have been made brain dead with liberal lies and turned into non-thinkers by the liberal education system. Don't waste your time on me.
Annie
Hating Isreal can be extremely hazardous, as history has proved time again. Ask yourself why there are no Hittites, Amorites, Edomites, Amelekites on the streets of London or New York? Or Paris? Isreal is right on this one(Hezbollah); enough is enough. This hatred of Jews is visceral and ancient and truth has no part of it. Until Truth becomes real and personal, it will not end. I find it odd the lovers of "tolerance" are the most hateful after all.
Aunt Susan
What really surprises me most, is not that Arabs feel that way, it's that we have AMERICANS that feel the same way. We have congressmnn and women who would love nothing more but to see Israel fail. I was surprised to see on the news(i know, the news is such a horrible way to see what's happening)but was horrified to see we have leaders that felt that way. Tim, love the post...stay safe and I'll see you soon!
Come on people. Cut the Liberals a little slack. There are 3 things they cannot tolerate- -
1. Intolerance 2. Jews
3. Christians
Wow! Hostile much, Annie? I just asked a simple question! Granted, it's a loaded one, so explain to me just one propaganda ploy and I'll drop the subject.
Or is that even too difficult?
I'll give you a hint: There's a biggy and it has to do with wording of a certain well known phrase.
I think everyone needs to stop attacking everyone else.
This is freaking ridiculous, guys.
Israel vs. Hizbollah, Liberal vs. Conservative... Does no one else see the vicious cycle that is just being mindlessly repeated?
Let's stop the stereotypes already! Not all Liberals are anti-Christian, or intolerant, or Anti-semitic, just as all Conservatives aren't Bible-thumpers, hate homosexuals, or support Bush.
Moreover, throwing these labels around doesn't solve anything.
Point proven. Old, old, old lines. Get some new ones as you are on the borderline of boring. "Can't we all just get along together?"
Well gee, I'm sorry you find the idea of peace so boring... Perhaps you should go pick a side to fight on so you experience in person the "excitement" of a real war.
It's rather easy here in the United States to advocate war and violence when it isn't you participating in the war and violence, and its even easier to advocate when the war and violence isn't happening in your country.
http://xs104.xs.to/xs104/06316/collateral.gif
Go in your back yard, hug a tree, then come in take off your black socks and birkenstocks, eat some granola, relax to some Peter Paul and Mary music and - - try again. Live in the NOW!
A different anonymous
Oh Lord. You obviously can't address the point but can hurl totally irreverent, sophomoric insults. Good for you! What a SHINING example of your God given faculties for critical thought and empathy! Are you like 10, or something?
"It's rather easy here in the United States to advocate war and violence when it isn't you participating in the war and violence..."
Much as it's easy here in the United States to advocate turning the other cheek when it's not our soldiers being kidnapped or our people being rocketed/suicide bombed by fanatics who have stated time and again that they will never accept ANY peace with Israel.
Just like it was easy for us to say that Saddam Hussein was 'contained' when it wasn't 45,000 - 48,000 of our people starving to death each month.
I really wish your way of thinking was the correct way to solve this world's problems. It really would be a much nicer, brighter place.
However, as long as there are groups out there who do not want peace, consider no tactic unethical (even those which purposely put their own people at risk) and will pay any price to see their objectives to fruition, there cannot be peace.
To suggest that if we or anybody else is finally just nice enough to these medieval-minded bigots, that everything will suddenly become 'peaceful' is simply asinine.
This is anonymous. You obviously can let a 10 year old mentality irritate you Elizabeth. To set you straight, I sold everything I owned in life, which will probably be more than you will have in your life time and gave it all to men going into war zones to get the truth out to America. I have only enough to survive month to month now. I researched for years to get at the truth of terrorism and to understand Islamic countries. I spend from 12 to 18 hours a day working to support our fine brave Military men. It is my duty and my pleasure. I am proud to be an American even if I do have the mind of a 10 year old and can't go fight myself. It is for sure that when, because of people like you, terrorists fight us in our own country I will fight to the last breath and I will do it because I know the truth and have not been deceived by the big liberal lie. I looked for myself and found the truth, I did not go to college to be fed lies. Although I was married to a college president and history professor for 20 years until he passed away, and am not an ignorant person. No Elizabeth. You are the blind one and willingly so. You are so quick to judge when in fact you know nothing! May God have mercy in His judgement.
Annie
Thank you William for your comment. If we stand together we will not fall. We will beat all the Elizabeths of the world along with the terrorists. You are appreciated.
Response noted, Ms. Annie.
I see you still cannot answer my question... Perhaps you should examine that.
Oh, and I think you might be confused?... I have no idea who the heck this "Elizabeth" is, and so do not appreciate being grouped with "the Elizabeths of the world".
Why is it always so us vs. them? We probably have a lot more in common than you think, Ms. Annie.
We have nothing in common!
We are both female.
We both support our troops.
We both believe in God, as I have gathered from your comments...
As such, I'd suspect you are likely a Christian and so follow the teachings of Jesus... You know: lovin' your neighbor, feeding the poor, helping those less fortunate, turning the other cheek (Jesus never advocated violence), accepting the fact that God is our Ultimate Judge and Jury and not us... all that good stuff...
...I think all of this applies here. I'm positive there are hundreds more similarities.
Anon,
The "Turn your other cheek" passage you refer to is one of my favorites in the Bible. What I like so much about it is that in Jewish culture turning the other cheek was a virtue. But that being said what was also a virute was coming to others aid that needed it. If you saw your brother being beaten you were expected to come to his aid. Turning the other cheek applies to the one being hit but it was a call to others to come and help.
Why exactly was Peter carrying a sword when Jesus was arrested?
You are the man Boggs. Love good and hate evil.
As a Jewish person, I can say
with some confidence, my people
have been around this earth for more than 5000 years. And I have
no reason to believe that this enemy will succeed where all the others have failed in their quest to remove all of us from the face of it.
(At least, I hope not!)
Try Revelation Chapter 19 noting verses 15 through 21. First time he came He, as you rightly said, came to die for our sins. Second time He comes to judge the nations. I think He will have a sword there. Plain English - -He has always put evel down and will be the one who finishes all this debate.
I am new to this blogging thing; I found this blog from a link on Fox News. I just wanted to respond to Elizabeth’s blog. Elizabeth I fail to see how Boggs repeating a conversation that he had with an Iraqi is considered lying? You wrote, "Sgt. Boggs, I'm sorry, but I have to say something about the lies you keep repeating and repeating." What lies? Was the Iraqi lying when he repeated what he had been taught since he was a young child? Was Boggs lying when he repeated it? It is not a lie say that Israel has lived with the fact that every single country around them is a threat to their way of life and would like nothing more than to see them destroyed. Is it a "gross generalization" to say that most of the Arabic world feels the exact way that this young Iraqi does? No. For you to say that Israel is wrong in its war with Lebanon is in fact wrong. Doesn’t a country have the right to defend itself against attack? Hezbollah has been a threat at Israel’s border for many years and Israel has repeatedly asked the Lebanese government to take care of them but they have yet to do so. Want to know why? Because they support Hezbollah. As for the all of the civilians that have died in the war it is unfortunate, but the truth is that the majority of them SUPPORT Hezbollah more than their own government. They support the same group that has committed terrorist attacks against us and Israel because we are the only countries standing in the way of them taking power.
Elizabeth it is fine that you don’t support the war or the soldiers or anything for that matter, you have that right, but to call Sgt. Boggs a liar for telling about one of his experiences that he had while he was actually living among the Iraqi people is irresponsible. No amount of reading history books can take the place of personal experience. Sgt. Boggs has experienced it, my father has experienced it. You have not. Sgt. Boggs thank you for all that you do and thanks for letting me post my two cents.
Spiderman, I like your spunk. I read your comment twice and I'm with you. Boggsy is honest and truthful. Just because you don't like what he says doesn't mean he is not telling the truth. But then the truth gets beat up a lot lately. Thank you for all you said.
Annie
He gave no thought to the millions of Jews slaughtered over the years and couldn’t see past the inevitable deaths of civilians that come along with any war. I told him that if terrorists would quit hiding behind civilians than they wouldn’t die. I don’t think he understood.
Can you not tie the situation to Iraq? Do not Al Qaeda and terrorists lie about Iraqis and Americans there? Why would your friend believe foreign terrorists about Israel when he doesn't believe the foreign terrorists in Iraq about Iraqis and Americans?
He has to see it to believe it, to bypass the prejudice and rational barriers. Since he can't see Israel, correlate what he sees in Iraq to Israel.
Until they learn to seek the truth instead of blindly hating Jewish people they will never understand why I could possibly support “baby killers” and “trash.”
Just say that you support Israel because if you didn't, you would be killing Iraqi children and detonating robots armed with bombs inside Iraqi internet cafes. Your friends and Iraqis can either believe some Arabs that want Iraq to fail, or they can believe you, who they see and know. Arabs have a lot of rumours, and convincing people via abstract things are always hard. What you see is not what they see, after all. Don't Al Qaeda say Americans like you are baby killers that savage and rape Iraqis? Why would one terrorist be lieing about you and then telling the truth about Jews?
Of course we will have “allies in Iraq” but the general populous will probably never get behind us until the Jews are wiped from the face of the earth.
Post-Civil War Reconstruction time in the United States. Just can't get people to treat blacks fair. However, with enough power, you can force a state of security and peace, if not now, then setting the foundation for the future.
If you can't convince people through words, then convince them with action and power.
"Allies" have to make a choice. If Iraq wants an alliance with the US, they have to figure out the logical inconsistencies. If America supports Israel and this means America wants to oppress the world, then why does America support Iraq? Does Iraq also want to oppress the arab world? Does Iraqis kill children too? Is Iraq stealing Syrian and Iranian territory if Iraqi troops move across those borders to stop terroists?
Those you cannot convince with words, can be convinced with action and power. Because at a certain point, people will have to choose. And they cannot avoid that decision because you won't let them avoid it.
The prejudice against Jews is long standing. If the right things are done with the new generation in Iraq, then the new generation will replace the old generation's prejudices.
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