Thursday, July 20, 2006

Supporting The Troops…Or Not

Many patriotic Americans want to say that it is impossible to support the troops while not supporting the mission they are currently undertaking. They think if you argue against the war there is no possible way that you can possibly appreciate the work soldiers do day in and day out. I disagree. I know my saying this will probably anger more than a few of my readers but bear with me and consider my reasoning.

Not too long ago I was a subscriber to this train of thought. I often wondered how people could support what we were doing if they thought what we were doing was wrong. It sounded like a logical impossibility to me. There is no way I could support someone while they continued to do something that I wholeheartedly disagreed with. That would be like supporting Nazi soldiers at concentration camps who didn’t necessarily agree with what they had to do but did it anyway because they were commanded to. How could anyone do such a thing?

Over the past couple of weeks though, I have come upon two individuals that have changed my opinion: Ben Stein and Cher.

Ben Stein has been a tireless supporter of troops and is almost unequaled in his admiration for the job troops do. He frequently posts on American Spectator and has several wonderful articles about his respect for troops. Here is an excerpt from his article titled Greetings From Rancho Mirage.

“And, friends in the armed forces, this is the story of all America today. We are doing nothing but treading water while you guys carry on the life or death struggle against worldwide militant Islamic terrorism. Our lives are about nothing: paying bills, going to humdrum jobs, waiting until we can go to sleep and then do it all again. Our most vivid issues are trivia compared with what you do every day, every minute, every second.”

I doubt anyone can say it better than Mr. Stein does in that article. But while Mr. Stein supports the troops he also has some not so kind words for the President. In an article entitled “Keeping The Faith” he talks about Iraq being a mistake.

“Iraq was a mistake. And it’s turning out badly. We lack the national will to win this war. We had no good reason to be there in the first place. (Thank you, CIA.) We were supposed to not get into any more wars we did not absolutely need to be in. If we did get into them, we were supposed to go in with enough force to win. We screwed up every part of this and it’s a mistake.”

Cher is another example of someone who can tirelessly support the troops while continuing to disagree with their mission. I read an article about Cher the other day in the Stars and Stripes that mentioned how she became a spokesperson for Operation Helmet, which is an organization that supports getting better military helmets for soldiers. As a result of her involvement she has visited many wounded soldiers and plans a trip to Iraq in the future. In the article she expresses her admiration for soldiers but when asked how she could be for the troops and against the war she replied:

“I don’t have to be for this war to support the troops because these men and women do what they think is right. They do what they’re told to do. They do it with a really good heart. They do the best they can. They don’t ask for anything. They just do what they’re supposed to do. So, my beef is not with them at all.”

What makes Mr. Stein’s and Cher’s disapproval of the war while at the same time applauding the troops okay in my book is their unwillingness to undermine the war effort. There is a difference between disagreeing with the war on reasonable (or not so reasonable in most cases) grounds and disagreeing with the war while at the same time providing aid and comfort to the enemy like so many people do when they publicly denounce the war and America for fighting it.

Take for example people like Cindy Sheehan, John Kerry, John Murtha, Joe Biden and the whole slew of the anti-war crowd. They often purport to support the troops while at the same time undermining our efforts in the Middle East. By their actions and words-leading anti-war rallies that include groups such as Code Pink ANSWER and speaking out against the actions of troops, they encourage terrorists to keep up their fight. Code Pink and ANSWER, while claiming to be anti-war, are merely Communist front groups who wish ultimately to see the demise of democracy and capitalism. They do not care about the American soldiers fighting and dying each day in Iraq and Afghanistan they merely want to sow as much hatred towards the beacon of freedom and liberty that is the United States of America by using any and every controversy that might divide us. They aren’t particular if it gives them the hope that it might bring violent revolution to our streets.

These anti-American groups embolden the very people who are fighting against the troops that they claim to care about. When they take out ads in Iraqi papers, as Code Pink has done, to denounce the war they only show support and solidarity for the cause of the Islamofacists. Apparently these groups know their recent history. This type of “support” caused the Vietcong to keep up their fight until the American military withdrew from Vietnam and claimed defeat even though in every sense of military victory they were winning. The old saying “sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me” no longer holds true. Sticks and stones will bounce off my body armor but the words of Americans will encourage our enemies and discourage our supporters to no end.

So while people like Ben Stein and Cher oppose the war but claim to support the troops I will welcome them with open arms. I disagree with their assessment of the war, as I am happy to be in Iraq fighting for peace and see a purpose for what we are doing, but I am thankful that they can appreciate what we are trying to do. As long as you are not actively seeking to undermine what we are doing here you are harmless. However, when you cross the line like Code Pink and ANSWER have done you are no longer a supporter of the troops: you are a corroborator with terrorists and are just as responsible for the blood of Coalition soldiers as those who pull triggers and lob mortars.

42 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thanks Tim - you worried us with the first part of your blog but explained what you meant well from there forth and we agree. Probably nobody agrees totally with what we have done in Iraq - -or in anything as far as that goes. But we don't give the enemy ammunition by bashing our Government over some understandable disaggrements about tactics etc. There is an obvious difference between the ones who disagree over a point and those who aid and abet the enemy and in reality hate America and do cause our Military men many unnecessary problems - -to the point of death sometimes. Thanks again for a great blog Sgt. Boggs. Are you sure you are only 24 years old?
Stay safe as possible.
your readers,
A&N

Lynnette in Minnesota said...

Seargant Boggs,

What are the odds of medicine that is sent by a charity into Iraq being used on those it was meant for?

I ask this because of this:
http://waldschrat.blogspot.com/

This is Truth Teller's hospital and this is something they were working on awhile ago. I happened to run across this in another blogs comments section and am tempted to donate, but am not sure if it's a good idea or not. I would not want to donate and have the medicine end up on the black market. What kind of oversite is there for these charities?

Any idea?

Thanks for any help you can provide for my quandary.

Lynnette in Minnesota said...

*sigh*
Seargant = Sergeant

But I'm sure you knew what I meant. :(

Jim said...

Well at least some of the "anti's" in this war support the troops or say they do.
Back in the day( 66-68), no pretenions, most everyone hated the troops while LBJ and the idiot SECDEF pissed away our lives.
I'm not real sure we should be where we are now or where we were then but at some point this country has to show the national resolve to see something, anything through. Seems like we have cut and run on everything since WWII.
If I were a ally I wouldn't trust the US any further than I could throw Ted Kennedy!!

Jim said...

BTW Sgt. Boggs I do appreciate what you and all the other troops do day in and day out.
Be safe!!

BUCK SARGENT said...

Sorry Tim, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one.

It is a logical impossibility to love your troops but hate what they are doing. If you are against the war, then by extension you are against us succeeding, because if you were not, then why would you be against the war in the first place? Clearly, our goal is not one you share.

If you are against us succeeding, then by extension you are against the Iraqi people regaining control of their country. If we leave tomorrow, they may still succeed in this, but it will be a heck of a lot harder and longer road for them. Perhaps you think everything will be fine if we would only leave, but that is just ignorance of the fractured state of Iraqi culture. These are a violent people with a violent past. We did not teach them this in three years time.

Basically, I don't understand what the antiwar people would have us do over here if it isn't win. I'm guessing they don't want us to be killed, but is that it? They just want us to make it through our year alive without actually accomplishing anything? Meanwhile, they continue to badmouth the job we do every single day? How is this support?

How does it help me that Cher "supports me" yet doesn't support a single thing I do all day? Isn't that kind of like saying I think Cher is a terrific actress even though I thought she stunk up the joint in every single film she's been in? (Not true, just a hypothethical).

And Ben Stein thinks we're awesome, although we're all cogs being used by the government in some incompetent foreign crusade? Does he send cards to the Middle East thanking us for risking ourselves in a fantastic waste of lives and resources? If not, why not? At least then he'd be consistent.

You know, I thought the Balkans were an incredible stupid place for us to get involved. Now there was an ACTUAL civil war with hundreds of years of unbroken hostility behind it, and had zero bearing whatsoever on United States interests. This was all Europe's ballgame. Yet they refused to do anything about yet another genocide in their own backyard, so we stepped in to clean up their mess once again. It was idiotic policy on our part, but you know, once we were committed I thought it was pretty important that we were successful, because a lot of people's lives depended on it.

Probably would have been a little more effective sooner if we had done more than just bomb from the lower atmosphere, but ultimately it still prevented an entire race of people from being wiped out. But I digress...

The bottom line is, do these people want us to defeat militant Islam or don't they? Because there are a lot of them over here who need defeating, and propping up Iraq for the long haul will go a long way toward establishing a foothold of sanity in an otherwise insane region of the world. A region that our enemies call home. They call Iraq a "distraction" from the War on Terror? Then tell us, oh experts, where should we be sent instead? What regime would you have us topple next? If you said Syria or Iran, I would probably agree with you. If you said Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, I would not, because the people who live there are crazier than the actual regime itself. If you said finish the job in Afghanistan, I'd remind you that I've been there and despite what the press hyperventilates about, there really isn't a damn thing going on over there. It's not our fault the French "Special Forces" can't even handle a bunch of ragtags with pickup trucks and AK-47s. If I could have found those guys two years ago, I would have been ecstatic.

But I have the feeling what these naysayers would really have us do is: nothing. However, playing offense is the only hope we have of beating back this menace. We played defense for two decades and all it got us was more and bolder acts of terrorism.

It's time to say "enough's enough." Five years ago, most of these people agreed. It's precisely why I joined the Army. Five years later, I'm still committed. It's not my problem, nor is it of any interest to me that these fair-weather patriots have nerves of jelly.

Frankly, I'm really not all that surprised.

p.s. Tim,

Loved your last post, btw. Thought it was one of your best.

Agnieszka O. said...

Don't believe in everything what you read...:-)
Yes, Cher visited wounded troops in Walter Reed in D.C., but when asked, she refused to take pictures. She made some of the guys really angry.

Lynnette - the best approach is to go to AnySoldier.com and see who is asking for medicine. I mailed a lot of medicine and vitamins for children both to Iraq and Afghanistan, and I know for SURE where it went.

Anonymous said...

I have had this 'discussion' with several anti-war types. Some say they support the troops, some even send care packages, but they aren't shy about sharing the opinion that the war is immoral and/or illegal. I can't help but find their 'support' incredibly condescending. To say you support the troops but not the mission that they volunteered for is to say you consider them hapless victims of their own bad decision or lack of moral clarity. 'I think you are lacking my level of comprehension and moral character because I find what you are doing abhorent, but I support you--here's some cookies'? Maybe I'm just looking for a fight, but being told that one supports your combat medic daughter about to embark on her second tour, but what she is participating in, even went out of her way to volunteer for, is an immoral and wasted effort, sometimes leaves me in the mood for a fight. I have had that happen twice this week and uncounted times previous.

Thanks for the efforts on all fronts.
GC

Lynnete--I helped a little with Waldschrat's first effort, but only after I learned it was being delivered directly to the cancer clinic by the 1/25th. That gave me some reassurance and thought it might contribute to some goodwill for our guys. You might ask him if units in Mosul are still playing a part.
Formerly 'Strykerdad"

Anonymous said...

Tim, I really enjoy reading your Milblog. I have to say that half-hearted support by the Ben Stein's & Cher's of the world is another yet effective way of supporting the enemy. These types of people also have been effective in gaining public office and in legal professions sometimes both concurrently. Speaking with a forked tongue or out of both sides of ones mouth used to be equated with such conduct. Sometime soon you should wake up and realize that. I know that being placed in your current situation caused one to mature rapidly. It is mho that Cher never has, however she may be showing signs of evolving into this human condition; again this may take more years than she has in the limelight and we may never see it. I have to agree with Buck Sargent's assessment of the situation; you cannot be supporting our troops if you are not supporting what they're doing. Kind of makes me wonder what she had to say to those she visited in military hospitals. I can appreciate her going there but question her real motives.
Whenever these types of people stand up and join in the action then we can for sure say they are supporting you. Cher spoke in the "Star & Stripes" about people she knew who weren't committed enough to take such action; she also spoke of many being against the war. In both cases she didn't speak for me and many people I know …… so we're even.
Let us know when you wake up.
Stay alert and stay safe.

T. F. Boggs said...

I may not have communicated myself well enough in this post, often a failure of mine. The type of people Buck talks about-the ones who think we are immoral and fighting a losing cause that we should have never started-are the ones that I feel undermine our efforts in the Middle East.

While I feel Ben Stein is stuck on stupid when it comes to not seeing why we are in Iraq fighting, I can appreciate his sentiment towards the soldiers. I think you really have to read all the things he has written to understand where he is coming from. And if you do don't blame me for his stupidity, he was great in Ferris Buellers Day Off wasn't he?

As far as Cher goes I think she is just plain ignorant when it comes to what is going on in Iraq. However, I see her as a motherly figure that has a heart for soldiers who are wounded. I do not think she is actively involved in undermining the war effort; she is just ignorant of what is really going on.

I think Ben Stein and Cher are much better ignoramuses than Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan. They may not agree with how we are going about things but Ben Stein at least knows we are fighting militant Islam. While I think fighting militant Islam anywhere is good, and eventually going to happen, maybe Ben just thinks we should have started elsewhere.

For the record I am completely for this war. I was in 2002 and still am. I think it is the right war at the right time and in the right place. I think we are doing something great in Iraq (not to mention Afghanistan too) and I think history will look favorably upon us even if people don’t now.

Buck you mention that you thought getting into the Balkans was incredibly stupid, but once there you thought we should see it through. You said a lot of people’s lives depended on what we did right? Well that is how I see Stein and Cher. They may not agree with Iraq but I think if you asked them they would want us to see it through because now a lot of lives depend on what we are doing. What you said is what I was trying to say. People might think it was stupid for us to come to Iraq but now that we are here they know we should continue.

Stein may not be doing the most he possibly could to support our efforts here but I don’t think he is actively undermining our efforts. Maybe I am just stuck on stupid though and I am always up for someone to change my mind.

tfdad said...

"I think Ben Stein and Cher are much better ignoramuses than Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan."

Tim, this is brilliant, biting satire. If Ben is to happen upon this column (we know Cher won't) he'll know how it feels to be damned with faint praise.

As long as they work hard as staying "harmless", I'm with you on this.

Bag Blog said...

I read your post last night. Then I had to "sleep on it" before I commented. I am with Buck Sargent on this one.

In Ben Stein's quote he says of the war in Iraq, "..it is turning out badly...We screwed up every part of this and it's a mistake." That does not sound like praise for the soldier. It sounds like he thinks you are doing badly - screwing up everything - not just at the beginning, but even now. As to Cher, well, she seems a bit confused on most everything in life, so I don't consider anything she says too wise. Yet, there are people who do listen to her. If she is negative towards the war and says so in public statements, then she is actively undermining the war in my book. You may be willing to give them a little praise for their "support", but I think they are a stumbling block - lukewarm to be spewed out of the mouth.

Our military is working to rebuild and bring democracy to Iraq while fighting off insurgent/terrorist who do not want to see democracy anywhere in the world. As Buck Sargent said, "If you are against us succeeding, then by extension you are against the Iraqi people regaining control of their country." I would add, that they are against democracy.

My praise goes to the soldier.

Agnieszka O. said...

"However, I see her as a motherly figure that has a heart for soldiers who are wounded." - at least in WR she just watched them (at the rehabilitation)and hardly spoke to them. As far as I know she didn't "open" her heart. However, if she is helping - good for her.

Anonymous said...

Sgt. Boggs,
I think this was a very important blog. It brings into the light a very important truth. We all have to take stands in life, want to or not. None of us can take a pass, try as we might. In reality there is no middle of the road. What each of us does makes a difference for good or evil, right or wrong. War just makes this an obvious truth. Many are against our winning this war on terror simply by refusing to educate themselves and not getting involved in any way. Many are too busy with self gratification to have time to make a decision to do the things it takes for a country to win. Face it, some are so ignorant and lazy that they totally depend on others to take care of them, do the thinking and the defending of our country and them. There are probably more people just doing nothing than actively doing their best to cause us to loose. None of these types are a help but a weight around our necks as we fight this all important war on terrorism. Much to that statement "If you are not for us you are against us." We all have to take a stand and refusing to take a stand to win IS taking a stand to aid and abet the enemy. As this world wide war escalates, I have less and less patience or sympathy for anyone who furthers the cause of the enemy. It is a much bigger problem than the MSM whose evils you pointed out so well Tim. Thank you for bringing the subject up. It is not discussed enough and you really started a discussion. You are one brave soul, Tim Boggs, and I for one admire the heck out of you and have no doubt that you will always listen to honest debate and listen to good council. Oh that all were like you and Buck and your great commenters. In the end it will not be celebrities and people in the news who win this war but unknown citizens actively taking a stand against terrorism wherever it is and our great Military. You are much appreciated Sgt. Boggs. And to the man who fought in VN. Not everyone hated you. I didn't nor did those I knew. We just didn't get covered by the press. What they did to you men they did to those of us who were with you as well. But we little people have a voice now with the web and I think it is making a difference. Thanks to you for what you did and to Tim's great commenters.
Annie

Lynnette in Minnesota said...

Agnieszka O.,

Thank you for that site. I will consider that.

Anonymous(formerly Strykerdad),

Nice to see you again. After TT had closed his comments section I kind of avoided his blog and consequently had forgotten about this until Waldschrat popped up in the Kid's comments section. As you know TT is not really one of my favorite people, but I did say I would help if there was some assurance that the drugs were getting to the right people. I will stop by Waldschrat's and see what he has to say about continuing military involvement.

Buck Sargent,

Regarding our involvement in Bosnia, I have talked to someone who has served over there. Basically the people over there were more concerned about us leaving too soon. Sometimes it is only our involvement that does strangely enough reassure people. Although in their case I can understand after what happened at Srebenica.

Sgt. Boggs,

My apologies for being off topic with this, btw. Your site was the only one I could think of that might give me some feed back on this.

T. F. Boggs said...

Lynnette,
I am not sure about the medicine thing. I'll do my best to find out though and if I do get an answer I'll let you know. It sounds like a good cause to me because I know I hand out more ibuprofen than I can keep in stock. These guys don't have anything over here. If they get a headache they chew on some unbrewed tea.

Anonymous said...

The older I get the more I find myself saying, “On the other hand…”

I was not for starting this war. It may in fact have been illegal, and it is certainly out of our national character to attack countries that have not attacked us first. Lest we forget, we went to Iraq to rid the country of WMD, not to free the Iraqi people. I suppose it is reasonable to expect that getting rid of WMD and Saddam would have the collateral effect of freeing the Iraqi people, but that still leaves the thorny issue of an unprovoked attack, particularly in light of no ties to Al Quaida.

Before you immediately decide I’m one of those left-leaning moonbats, I joined the military at the end of the Vietnam era and served 20 years. My family has served all the way back to the Revolutionary War. My father fought on an LST in Tarawa & Iwo Jima and was attacked by Kamikazis. My great Uncle fought (and got shot in the butt) in the Argonne Forest. My grandfather fought in WWI. My son is in the Marine reserves, having just finished an active duty tour.

So, saying all that, I am acutely aware of the problems with saying I’m against the war but for the troops. I’ve felt it myself. Buck is right. Saying that feels like saying “I support you, but you are really throwing your life away for no reason, you poor, misguided, thing you.” I’m well aware of the pain of being in a military unsupported by the public. I remember a public hostile to the cause quite well.

On the other hand, we shouldn’t have been in Vietnam. Who knows how many more lives would have been wasted before we finally got out of there had there been no demonstrations.

I’m frustrated at the mistakes our government has made. How could we have gone there with so little understanding of the ME culture? We made the exact same mistake in VN.

On the other hand, mistakes are made in every war, big ones, even ones we win. FUBAR has been around for a long time for a reason.. Nothing that is happening now is new in the history of wars.

We attacked a country that didn’t attack us.
On the other hand, fighting in WWII was certainly the right thing to do, even before we were attacked.

Are we right? Are we wrong? History will judge.

I am against the way the war started. No country should leave it’s wars unexamined. But I do totally support our military. The caliber of people like Tim and Buck and Jarhead and Dreadcow and Redsix and on and on is amazing.

So. Now we are in it, let’s go win it.

mamaworecombatboots

Ian said...

I have been against this action from the time of Bush's first "Axis of Evil" speech, in which I could see where it was leading (Iraq). Didn't buy the "imminent threat" argument, nor the WMD presentation by Powell, nor the flower petals at our feet scenario painted by Cheney. Nope, I didn't and still don't think it was the right action to take.

Reading the angry posts regarding basically anyone who opposes this action - and your painting of me in particular as a "terrorist" or "communist" for not cheering you on to "victory," whatever that means - I guess I'll just stop my "supporting" my cousins stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and cease paying taxes to "support" your paychecks (oh, wait, that would wind me in prison), and never again send gifts from our business over to you guys (or your wives here at home) who are fighting for OUR freedom amongst people who desire it so much. Nope, you're absolutely right, us antiwar terrorist corroborators need to take our fake "support" and shove it up our asses - here here!

Yes, I want you to come home. Period. Leave those uncivilized motherfuckers to themselves to kill, torture, and mutilate themselves out of existence. Try as you might, you can't turn a turnip into a rose, so you did your job (I think the sign "Mission Accomplished" on the carrier with a smug president stated this fact, so anything beyond is bonus) and now it's time to come home and let THEM sort it out. We didn't stay in Mogadishu, so why stay there? Yes, it will be harder for them without our guns at the ready, but that's how it has to be. When our own country entered the Civil War, did Britain come over, occupy us, and prevent us from fighting? So there, yes, I want to "cut and run," before any more of you die in this idiotic campaign to help a country with only one reason for our involvement (oil) and who live in a region we'll never change. I want my relative, friends, and acquaintances to come home to your wives and children and defend us from REAL threats who dare to attack us.

It's understandable that you want to find meaning and purpose in what you're doing. You certainly don't want to feel you are fighting and dying for something senseless or dishonest; but unfortunately you are. This war is unnecessary, unwinnable, and undefinable. Not another life should be lost in this insane endeavor and you should come home now. I hate America for wanting you home? Wow!

Finally, if you want to defeat terrorism, maybe it would be better to take away their economic engine - oil. I hear so much about "sacrifice" from all of you, but have any of you ditched your SUV's for hybrids? Turned up your thermostats? Bought low voltage lights? Recycled? Anything that might inconvenience your lives in any way to help lessen our dependence on their most precious commodity? Take away their levers of power and they'll kill themselves into non-existence.

And what about you soldiers who are "sacrificing" for our freedoms? Did someone point a gun to your heads to join and "sacrifice?" Did it say on your military contract that every American would "support" every mission you set off on? Is it required that we march, like lemmings, to the beat of leaders who some of think of as corrupt and immoral? I saw on a Frontline documentary that you have Taco Bell and Subway and plenty of ice cream on many of your bases; is the "sacrifice" you're making include less menu choices than you get back at home? Does the Iraqi military have access to this level of service? As for putting your lives on the line to defend our freedoms, how is this different than, say, a police officer who puts him or herself in harm's way to defend us against criminals? Are your deaths somehow more noble than theirs? Quit your whining and bitter rhetoric, for god's sake!

Of course, I could go on and on and piss you off even further, but what the heck good will it do. Sorry you don't like our "support" and good luck to all of you and I hope you are victorious at some point and can come home.

Ian Denchasy
Los Angeles, CA

Susan said...

I guess because I'm involved in the American Hero Quilts project which makes quilts for soldiers wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'm more aware of the sacrifices being made by soldiers "over there." I see pictures of the young men and women, I hear their stories, and the stories of their families, their losses, their grief.

Yes, Ian, I would say this is different from the policeman in the street. While both are willing to put their lives on the line, and both suffer casualties, the circumstances of those casualties are quite different. The percentages are different. The suffering is different.

I can't believe that anyone would think that because *some* of the soldiers have a few treats, like a Subway, that this makes the job easier, somehow less of a sacrifice to be so far from home and family. (Another difference with the policeman parallel, which is not parallel at all.)

You keep on, T. F! You may be thinking and rethinking issues, but that's a sign of an intelligent soldier. And thanks for defending the right of all of us, including Ian, to state what we think without fear. I'm betting that isn't happening under the rule of the Islamic freedom fighters.(yes, much sarcasm intended)

Anonymous said...

Maybe they are right Boggs. Maybe we should pull out now from all over the world and tell the creeps all over the world to just kill each other off using whatever means they want. Lets just pull you guys all back here and wait for them to take over the rest of the world who refuse to fight them because they want their oil too. Then when the ones already here and the ones elsewhere come to do us in I hope you will be fighting along side of me Boggs because I know you are no candy rear and I can count on you. And by the way. We don't need oil. We can just wait for our government to develop other fuels that we can get right here at home and we can all start driving tin can. Cut the lights off and use candles. And besides the rest of the world can pay those high prices we pay to those poor peopole over there for their oil. Yes I agree. And by the way. I don't worry about WMDs Everyone knows that no such thing exists anywhere and if they do only the good guys have them. I'm sure you guy would rather fight over here wouldn't you Sgt. Boggs. You can visit you mom and fight without ever leaving home. Thanks for all the enlightenment. You have opened my eyes. I am glad to know that all the fighting my family has done for this country was really just a waste of time and I will no longer respect any of them. Let me see where did I put that stick I'm gonna use.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Kat said...

I do agree with you. three of the most ardent troop supporters I know -- people I personally know who invest a TREMENDOUS amount of time & their own $ into troop support activities -- believe wholeheartedly the war is wrong. Yet, they NEVER pass up an opportunity to thank a Soldier if they see one, they never pass up an opportunity to ship care packages to troops, and on & on.

Sadly, they are the exceptions, rather than the rule.

the dude said...

I think you ought to consider your reasoning again bro.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Hey ian,
Thanks buddy!
I just figured whats the point in arguing with the likes of you.
Sometimes you just have to call them as you see them. Come on, it's not like you've never been called that before.
Neatie H

Anonymous said...

I have to agree with Ian here. The soldiers get ice cream and Taco bell? I think that makes it perfectly fine that they work in 125 degree weather and suffer through endless bouts of diarrea from living in a filthy enviornment, all while putting their lives at risk 24/7 so that little creeps can bad mouth them. Had I known about the ice cream it would have completely changed my views on the war! Can I jump on your band wagon Ian?

To Boggs other commenters:
You guys do a great job of supporting Tim. Keep it up.
The owl

Anonymous said...

Let's see now. LA is how many miles from North Korean missiles and Iranian nukes? Hummmm Some folks call it Los Angeles ....
I call it a target...Ummm hummm
Carl from Sling Blade

Gypsy said...

I've tried numerous times to understand "support the Troops, not the war" cry. I'm not an unintelligent person...but it makes no logical sense to me.

As far as cutting and running Ian, let me share with you a little something from an old SF Soldier who served this country in both times of peace and times of war. I don't expect it will change your mind but maybe, just maybe, some of it will sink in...

"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.

Still want to quit?"

Think about it.

mkfreeberg said...

Great post, Sarge. I linked the moment I found out about it.

Good points, good thoughts. Keep up the great work.

Barryaoke said...

Hey tim,
I love your transparency in your postings. Keep up the excellent, excellent, excellent work there at your post and in your postings.
Love ya man,
Barry

Ian said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Well Tim,
Once again your comment page has become a very interesting discussion. Have to admit, I had to get the dictionary out to translate many of the words. My vocabulary has been expanded if I can just figure out where I am going to go to use it. Maybe California. Kidding aside, I love your blogs, and keep up the great work. I for one appreciate all you are doing. Stay safe as possible.

Gypsy said...

Ian wrote: I don't want you there and never did. I want you to come home and defend America side by side with US, your fellow Americans. I want you alive, healthy, in good spirits, and raising families in peace and safety. Those "true believers" training day and night to kill us? Let 'em come over here and we'll teach them together the folly and futility of their mission and send them to Allah in little chunks in body bags. Iran wants to pursue nukes? Let's show them first hand what a nuke can do with Tehran as the example!

Ian I don't know anyone that wants our Military to be in harms way, either abroad or here in the US. I don't know anyone that doesn't want them to live in peace and raise their families. Why do you think they serve? It certainly isn't for the money. They do so, and go fight on foreign soil, to prevent our Country, their families and all of ours from destruction.

You want us to wait for them to come here? They already are here, who knows how many...but they are here, so don't delude yourself.

You want to fight here on American soil? Have your friends and family, and mine and others, in more danger? Fact is, the BGs are being "sent to allah" and our Military is doing a damn fine job of it, in actions known and unknown.

We can no longer wait for attacks, and hold hands and pray we'll be safe. We, our interests and our Military, have been under attack for many many years. It took 9/11 to once again wake the sleeping giant, and there are terrorists around the world who want only one thing. The destruction of everyone who doesn't cowtow or fall in line. They only know one thing...and that is violence. I will not wear a burkah, (sp?) and if it comes to it I will die on my feet rather than live on my knees.

I thank God we have a President and a strong Military more than willing to take the fight TO the enemy.

tanksis said...

WOW. Sgt., how I wish I were the author that you and some of your regular readers are.

I really have so many thoughts in reponse to all that you and some others here have expressed. Yet I struggle to be concise and articulate in my response, as I am so passionate about most issues you delve into, but particularly this one.

Just the other day, I was faced with a situation where, after learning that my brother was serving in Iraq, the person I was speaking with blandly stated that they "support the troops", but don't feel we should be in Iraq. I have struggled with finding an appropriate response to that statement. It is especially infuriating when it rolls off the tongue of someone in my own family. I can assure you, they do NOTHING to "support" the troops, not even their own family member who serves.

Anyway, my thinking is more in Buck's camp for the most part. Though, Sgt. Boggs, I do most certainly see your point about Cher and Mr. Stein (though I have to admit I immediately wondered what Cher's ulterior motives were). If they are actively showing appreciation for you guys, and not beating the bongo drums of defeat alongside their friends in the Hollywood Hills, maybe there is something to be said for that. I strongly agree with you that the vitriolic temper tantrums coming from the Babes in Ployland a la Cindy Sheehan and Co. only serve to aid our enemies.

Like everyone else, I thought you kicked ass on this one and it was, as usual, an excellent and thought-provoking read.


Looking forward to the next one!

P.S. Right on, Gypsy!

Lynnette in Minnesota said...

Sgt. Boggs,

Thank you. I know that Americares is perfectly legit. So I will take their word that LIFE is also.

There is more than one way to fight this war and trying to help those who cannot help themselves is I think worthwhile.

I will be sending them something and look forward to any info you can find out. It does sound like they have a pipeline set up through the military at the airport.

Btw, do they have Willow trees over there? The bark has been used to relieve pain.

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsHerbs/WillowBarkch.html

Lynnette in Minnesota said...

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsHerbs/WillowBarkch.html

Here's that link again. For some reason it got truncated.

Lynnette in Minnesota said...

Okaaaay, here's the rest of that link:
lowBarkch.html

M. Inaba said...

I can understand how someone can feel the way you do. Yes, our troops need to understand that we as a country are 100% behind you and your sacrifices, bravery and risks. That does not keep any of us from questioning the wisdom of placing young American men and women in harm's way. I was a roommate of Cindy Sheehan's by chance about a year ago and didn't really know her story at that time. I just knew her as a mother who had lost her son in Iraq. I only saw total dedication on her part to the interests of all U.S. service personnel. There was no ego, no effort to impress, to political agenda, no anything other than a mother grieving the loss of her child and wanting to make sure that he country had done everything to insure his safety while he was performing his duty, and to honor all service personnel for their sacrifices. To call her a traitor, as some people have done, is not only a mischaracterization, but borders on the cruel. I cannot speak for the Code Pink women, other than to say I have never seen or heard any comments that were not in total support of the troops and in total opposition of our government policy. God Bless you and keep you safe.

gypsy said...

Thanks tanksis...and please thank your brother for me!

t.f., once again your blog entry is outstanding. I apologize for not stating so in my two other posts.

Keep on writing, and stay safe. You are appreciated!

Grimmy said...

“Iraq was a mistake. And it’s turning out badly. We lack the national will to win this war. We had no good reason to be there in the first place. (Thank you, CIA.) We were supposed to not get into any more wars we did not absolutely need to be in. If we did get into them, we were supposed to go in with enough force to win. We screwed up every part of this and it’s a mistake.”

Just another example of the truth. That truth being this:
If hostile propaganda is broadcast constantly enough it will wear down reistance and eventually become accepted as true.

There is nothing true in that quoted statement above. Fatigue, frustration and tiredness are the weaknesses that such propaganda is designed to exploit.

Elizabeth said...
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strykeraunt said...

Strykerdad, thanks for the update regarding the 1-25 involvement in distributing the medication. I had not heard that they became involved. I always felt Waldschrat was very legit. However, like you, I was too concerned about TT to make a contribution myself.